Are 19-Year-Old Seniors All That Common?
All the talk about Ryan Romo being almost 19 years old got me thinking about something that’s been nagging at me since I took this job a little more than four years ago. It’s this suburban legend about Park Cities families giving their sons a “redshirt” year (presumably before kindergarten) so they’ll be more mature as high school athletes.
I have no idea whether this actually goes on. To quantify it, you’d need the birth dates of all Highland Park High School students for a certain number of years, so you could compare the average ages of male and female graduates. Then, to figure out if this is truly a Park Cities phenomenon, you’d need the same data from a few nearby public high schools where sports aren’t emphasized nearly as much (Hillcrest and Woodrow, for example). It also wouldn’t hurt to compare the HP data to that of another football-crazed, single-high-school district — say, Southlake Carroll.
Now, I highly doubt I’d be able to obtain such data from HPISD or any other school districts. But there are several former Scots whose dates of birth are publicly available. Let’s take a look.
I found only one recent Highland Park athlete who was 19 for a significant portion of his senior year: McMurry quarterback Tyler Rentfro turned 19 last February, three months before he graduated.
Former Ohio State and Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Anthony Schlegel turned 19 in March of his senior year (1999-2000). Former Mets pitcher Chris Young and Dartmouth lacrosse player Patrick Campbell both turned 19 in May of their senior years (1997-98 and 2010-11, respectively).
The rest of the players whose birth dates I was able to find all turned 19 after graduating from Highland Park:
Duke lacrosse player Chris Hipps turned 18 in September of his senior year (2009-10).
Rutgers lacrosse player Campbell Sode turned 18 in October of his senior year (2010-11).
Former Baylor and Pittsburgh Steelers punter Daniel Sepulveda turned 18 in January of his senior year (2001-02).
Duke offensive lineman Tanner Stone turned 18 in March of his senior year (2011-12).
As for the biggest names on the market, Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford and Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Clayton Kershaw turned 18 in February and March, respectively, of their senior year (2005-06).
So what does all of this tell us? Well, if those last two studs were able to achieve so much success while receiving their high school diplomas at the age of 18, it tells me I don’t need to wait until the 4-year-old athlete in my house turns 6 to enroll him in kindergarten.
71 comments to "Are 19-Year-Old Seniors All That Common?"
That being said, I have seen kids held back who are superior athletes and dominate their younger peers. And no, it doesn’t feel good to watch. And while I hope that the parents aren’t doing that just for sports, I’m sure it happens.
Obviously there will be situations where a child truly needs another year to develop, but that should be the exception, not the rule that is decided by the whim of over-protective, type-A parents.
The schools should establish a specific cutoff date for birthdays and kids should be required to start kindergarten if they’re school-age by that date. They could then put in place a review board made up of qualified people (educators, child psychologists, etc.) who could evaluate special requests from parents to delay their child’s start date by a year based on truly special circumstances.
I can’t wait to see the responses from parents to the effect of “No one has the right to tell me what’s best for my child!” Well, schools do that all the time when it comes to all other aspects of education (grades, curriculum, discipline, school hours, etc.). There should be some structure around the appropriate time to start school as well.
Otherwise, in 10 years we’ll be talking about whether it’s okay to have 20-year-old high school seniors.
I’m with 1Zima2Many. If HPISD would take a stand and set a date that no one could cross then this would be solved. I know there are kids with January birthdays who are being held back. In a few years the calendar is going to get so backward that kids will be 7 before starting Kindergarten because no one wants their child to be the youngest in the class.
Funny thing is, when I was starting school my parents wanted to push me ahead and had to meet with the principal in order to make that happen. I have always been the youngest (November birthday). Bet you don’t see that happen nowadays.
Is there really a problem? My oldest son who is now in his 20s was an April birthday. His church school kindergarten teacher recommended that he spend a year in Primer because he would be one of the youngest boys in his grade in HPISD. My wife and I (both HP graduates) were appalled at the idea at the time.
We did not hold him back and he went through HP, was on a state championship athletic team and went to UT and turned out great. The quarterback of the HP team his senior year (a classmate of his) was EIGHTEEN months older and his family was notorious for holding their kids back – mostly for athletic reasons. But I don’t remember anyone pitching a fit and they were really good kids.
For UIL sports there are age restrictions so you will not see the 20 year-old high school QB or pitcher. The club sports also have restrictions, but they are not under UIL perview.
In comparison, our youngest (Spring birthday) was held back. Not for athletic reasons (unless I can still bask in the glory that he was the biggest first grader in his elementary school) but for maturity and emotional ones. Fast forward a few years and he is average size and average athletic ability. He is a year older than most of his friends, and when they split up teams based on age and not grade there are just a handful of kids that “age up”.
There is no hornet’s nest here – the athletes cited in the article are the exception not the rule. I think if you asked every parent who held their kid back I think you would find that most would say 1) it was for a reason other than athletics and 2) if they didn’t feel that they would have to do it, they wouldn’t.
I think everyone on here is making much doo-doo about nothing.
Why?
Did you guys get scooped?
Tell us why you think “19 year old is to old” for high school. My son will graduate from Highland Park at the age of nineteen and I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.
By the time they reach high school, there usually isn’t a lot of difference between a seventeen, eighteen or nineteen year-old student.
I am curious why you should care.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/education/Highland-Park-suspending-students-after-off-campus-concert-177373561.html
the root of the scots’ 1945 state football championship
was a loss deep in the 1944 playoffs.
back then, there was no limit to eligibility,
so some of the team’s senior flunked courses
in the spring of 1945 so they could back
and win it all that fall.
How does any parent know when their child is four or five that they need to be “held back” because they’ll “certainly” be a star athlete in 12 or 13 years ?!? How many professional players in any sport graduated from HP? We are all happy for those kids who succeed in any area; however, I challenge anyone to name even ten or even five families that they know FOR A FACT made the decision of when to start first grade or kindergarten based on perceived future athleticism. Maybe the child had dyslexia or some other learning issue?
These hold backs are a huge issue. What about academics? How fair is it to have a 10 and 12 year old take the same test and be judged based on results? Its not at all fair. A few years ago the state proposed moving birthday cut offdate back to May. The result would have been a huge winfall of $$ for state, however short changing schools. RIght now are schools are about numbers, pack in as many as possible to get the $$. THey have the same expenses if they have 18 in a class room or 25 but much higher revenue with the 25. ITS ABOUT $$.
http://www.uiltexas.org/files/constitution/uil-ccr-subchapter-m.pdf
Freakonomics has covered this somewhat. Sounds as if a lot of HP parents are worried about “The Disadvantage of Summer Babies” so have started turning it into the Disadvantage of Spring Babies; then Winter; then Fall as we all begin sending our kids in Kindergarten much later than we used to.
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/11/02/the-disadvantages-of-summer-babies/
and more sports-centric:
http://www.freakonomics.com/2006/05/11/maybe-the-world-cup-wasnt-the-best-example/
Love the last paragraph of the second example. Makes me wonder…
Nope, graduated HS at 18, college at 22, and received my MBA at 27. And even if I had graduated at 19, your answer says more about you than it does about me.
All I’ve seen so far is anectdotes and feelings, waiting for some facts to determine why it matters. Outliers speaks to elite athletes, as well as how impactful a difference in age makes when you’re young relative to your peers. Their recommendation, by the way, was to break down classes by traunches of birthdays, rather than just randomly. Everyone keeps talking about what’s fair, short of that type of change, the system is still unfair. Using a Sept 1 guideline, a child born on August 31 will be 364 days older than a child born on Sept 1. Luck of the draw seems pretty unfair to the Sept 1 child.
Eligibility – Athletics and tell me how I was incorrect. Again, if you are 19 or older on September 1 of the school year, YOU CANT COMPETE IN UIL SPORTS (with one exception about disabilities found in Section 446). It looks like your 26 year-old student could sing in a Choir competition or be in a Academic Decathalon, but no sports for him. And isn’t that what is original point of the article was, holding back for athletics?
@Z – I stand by my logic. I have a holdback at HPMS and I would say there are only a handful of kids that I know in the same position. To say it is the norm is laughable and I am willing to wager a donation to Mad For Plaid that if we picked a grade and a random group of 25 kids from each elementary school, the holdbacks would be a miniscule part of the sampling. I will be the first to admit I have done zero research on this except what I know in my child’s grade and, again, I am focusing on the athletic side of participation (like any good HP dad would – haha).
- but spring/winter/fall)
My son is a late August birthday, so we did an extra year of pre-K and started him in Kinder right after he turned 6. He is, by the way, not even CLOSE to the oldest kid in his grade, and I would say a large number of spring/summer boys in his grade are hold backs. I don’t know any of their parents who did it for athletics, and any minor benefit they may get in elementary school from being older/bigger evens out by 8th grade (hello puberty!). We made our choice based on relative age, maturity, and academic readiness, and I wouldn’t change a thing. He is an average student and an above average athlete, but I would (shocker) flip those if possible. I do hate the idea of 19 year old seniors at the same school with my (then) young 14 year old freshman daughter, but she wasn’t allowed to date them or go to parties at that age anyway. I don’t think it’s an epidemic, but IS a growing trend at HP and area private schools.
Once again they are held back for sports. I love the quotes of current HPers who say they held back their boys but it was not for sports. You are a fake liar, but hey were talking about Highland Park people here. The fact that you compare your situation to ESD and St. Marks just shows that you really know very few people outside of the bubble. Yes, it happens at other schools but at a much lower rate. Please refrain from asking for hard data, every parent that has kids in HPISD knows this is an issue. The ones that say it is not an issue are the liars who hold their boys back and say it was not for sports
Also, for those who say that after the 8th grade it does not matter since all ages are equal that is just flat out dumb. If that were the case then schedule a scrimmage between the HP JV and the Varsity. It should be an even match because there is no advantage by being older.
The best way to solve this would be for some responsible parents to have their 15yr old daughters file statutory rape charges. Good luck defending your 19 yr old in court. The fact that high school boys now have to think about this is sad. It is much easier to prosecute 15 vs 19 then 15 vs 18.
From their website:
“Primer benefits some children as a social/emotional/intellectual bridge between kindergarten and 1st grade. This year allows a child to mature at his/her natural pace while continuing to progress academically. You cannot apply to Primer. Your child must apply to 1st grade and be recommended for Primer by the Admission Committee.”
Our son’s birthday is late August, and his pre-school strongly encouraged us to hold him back because of delayed development issues. BEST decision we ever made. It had absolutely nothing to do with athletics. He didn’t learn to read until halfway through first grade, and could barely tie his shoes until middle school.
Where to begin? Just four points I want to highlight (but I could go sentence by sentence if necessary).
1) “You are a fake liar, but hey were talking about Highland Park people here.”
CP, I am confused. Can you explain to me what exactly is a fake liar? Are all Highland Park parents “fake liars” or just the ones who say that their children were held back at the age of six due to maturity or emotional issues. Or do you think that HP parents are so good at discovering athletic talent that those children have been cherry picked – again, AT AGE 6, and that school is just a bump in the road to untold riches as a professional athlete?
2) “Please refrain from asking for hard data, every parent that has kids in HPISD knows this is an issue.”
Oh yes, let’s not let facts get in the way of a good story. I don’t know about you CP, but I always like to have the facts of an issue to make a well-reasoned decision. As my posts above state, I don’t have the birthdates of the HPISD students but I am basing my opinion (yes, it is an opinion) on my life experiences with two children going through the HPISD. I would love to see the data – I could be completely wrong as my sample groups (i.e. my children’s friends) may not be representative of the student body as a whole.
If I am incorrect in my opinion (there’s that silly word again) then I will be the first to declare that HP is a hotbed of holdbacks.
I will make the same offer to you as I did to Z above. Put your money where your mouth is and let’s set up a study to see if the holdbacks are as common as you think. Loser makes a donation to “Mad For Plaid”.
3) “The ones that say it is not an issue are the liars who hold their boys back and say it was not for sports.”
Once again CP, you haphazardly impugned the integrity of many of the parents on this thread who have opened up and explained the decision-making process that they went through to come to the conclusion that holding their child back was the best thing to do. If you haven’t made this type of decision for your child, how dare you question the motives of parents like me who did hold their children back. It is not an easy choice but a necessary one.
4) “The best way to solve this would be for some responsible parents to have their 15yr old daughters file statutory rape charges”
Wow, I am completely speechless. I honestly am not sure where to begin or how to respond. What does this have to do with ANYTHING we have been discussing on this thread? This “solution” has so many other issues irrelevant to the discussion at hand that I could spend the rest of the evening writing about it – but let’s just focus on a holdback example.
I can see it now – parents of a six year-old son trying to decide whether to send their son to Primer before first grade. “Dear, the teacher, counselor and headmaster have all said that Little Johnny really isn’t ready to go to first grade and that a year of Primer could do wonders.” “No, I am sorry Jane, what if in thirteen years Johnny dates a girl that brings statutory rape or sexual assault charges because her parents didn’t like him and she was under the age of 17?” “Hmmm, I see your point. Let’s just go ahead and put him in first grade – even though every expert says it is a bad idea – and see what happens.” Or something along those lines.
CP, tell us a little bit about yourself – did you graduate from HP? Do you have kids? Have you or your family experienced the holdback “phenom” to the detriment of you or your family? Why such vitriol against Highland Park and the parents of the school district?
Your credibility depends on contributing something of value to the conversation. Instead of broad generalities and a not very well thought out solution, how would you look at things if you were in the shoes of any of the parents who have posted their experiences? Let us know how you would handle this situation.
Oh, and my challenge still stands.
Regarding your suggestion of a JV/Varsity scrimmage, you do realize that which of those teams a kid plays on is based on ability, right? Juniors and even a few sophomores can make the Varsity team if they are good enough; JV is made up of only sophomores and juniors. I would assume the Varsity team would win that hypothetical scrimmage because they are BETTER, not because they are OLDER. Some kids even play both JV and Varsity, so an even match might be more feasible than you think. I’ve seen many kids who were standouts at young ages due to their age and/or size fade into “average” range as other kids grow and mature and just plain develop better skills.
You are right. HP has some of the slowest developing boys in the nation that need to be held back because they have trouble learning.
In response to why I am knocking HP all one needs to do is read the headlines about HP for the past 6 months to know there are some serious issues going on there. You guys are challenging south Dallas for the worst headlines, but I realize that HP is a fact adverse community.
I think the real point is not whether or not it is happening JUST in HP, but rather how does HP look compared to the rest of the country. THOSE are the facts that I’m interested in. Anectdotaly, in talking with people I know in other parts of the country, and reading about this issue, it seems to be a trend everywhere.
Hard to have a battle of wits when your opponent is unarmed.
Wits? Your child will graduate HPHS at 19 and you don’t see that as a problem. Sad but noted.
First off, have you read this thread at all? Or are you just jumping on the generalization bandwagon and assume that any and all hold backs are done for athletic reasons?
I do not see having my son graduating at 19 as an issue. Neither does my wife. At the time of his graduation, he will be 19 and less than two months – so if he graduated early in December at age 18, does that change anything in your eyes? Same kid – how would a December graduation be any different?
And if we think it is ok, why should you care?
Here is what is sad, Sammy. Sad are people like you, CP, callie and others jumping on issues you are not familiar with and having little, if any, facts to support your positions.
I am guessing you and your ilk don’t have kids. Because if you did, you would understand that a parent does whatever is best for their children. A decision to hold back is not made without lots of thought and research.
If you want to tell me what the problem is, please enlighten me. With facts, not opinion. You know what they say about opinions….
There is nothing sad about the situation – he is happy and so are we.
It’s pretty impossible to know if your child will be a standout in a sport when they have barely mastered toilet training.
Yes, I have kids and yes i get angry at those that try to game the system. Never knew anyone at HP who graduated in December so not sure about your hypothetical.
Love the word “ilk” though as it says more than you will ever grasp. I like to play by the rules. Maybe in another 20 years 20 year olds will be seniors because it is best for their kids as you say. What a strange barrier “best for their kids” is.
Here IS a fact about making a decision about a child (boy or girl?) starting school – my son has dyslexia. My mother was suffering with cancer. My son has a mid-June birthday. As it turns out he’s a really good athlete (as much as can be told when a child is in middle school) but I can promise that his possible athleticism or lack thereof was never a consideration.
@cp and @sammy do you know how hard classes in high school are these days? I guess we should “stick our heads on the sand” and set our kids up for failure or at least a very difficult trail? But you two clearly know better than actual parents of actual kids (sarcasm completely intended)
With all due respect, what irritates me about your response is the accusation that somehow we are gaming the system. Please explain to me how we are doing that. Are we doing anything illegal? How are we not playing by the rules? Should we ignore advice when a recommendation is made from teachers and doctors for my ADHD son that another year in school before first grade would be good for his maturation process?
Come on sammy, you are painting me with that big broad generalization paintbrush – if you call me a cheat, then tell me why I am a cheater. We play by the rules. And I expect everyone else to do the same.
If you are angry with me and my “ilk”, let’s set up a discussion – these blogs are the worst forums to discuss what is a very emotional issue.
I am very laid back in real life.
I just don’t suffer fools gladly.
In response to Old Man’s weak argument about how would you know if your child were good at sports at 18, most parents have the ability to look ahead and guess that at every single grade their child would have an advantage over others.
In response to the other comments that age plays no part in a child’s athletic ability I do not know how to respond to that. As many commentators have responded in reference to politics, it is hard to argue with today’s conservatives when you cannot even agree on simple realities. I have 2 sons and every single year they get better. My son actually dominates football at the 7th grade level, and I would be ashamed if I had held him back and put other kids’ safety at risk by playing him at the 6th grade level.
Actual stats to back the redshirting story. From this article:
http://www.babble.com/toddler/toddler-behavior-learning/redshirting-kindergarteners-age-kindergarten-readiness/
“Recent studies done on kindergarten redshirting have shown that growing numbers of summer birthday boys are being held back a year before starting kindergarten, especially in white, affluent areas of the country. In Carroll, Texas, a wealthy south Dallas suburb, 158 of 452 kindergarteners were six at the start of the 2007-2008 school year, while 165 of 504 first graders were seven. In Highland Park, Texas, a small city within the city of Dallas, 96 of 452 kindergarteners were six, and 79 of 436 first graders were seven, or eight(!).
Studies have shown two negatives regarding redshirting kindergarten boys. First, boys who are redshirted don’t perform any better than the average students of the class they join – in other words, they don’t perform as if they’re six, but instead perform like the other five-year-olds in their class. Also, boys who are held back tend to have more behavioral problems later on.”
Congrats on having a dominating seventh grade football player – I know you are very proud. Despite a rather confusing post above, I think this is what you are trying to tell me:
1) you were right to call me a fake liar because I continue to say that athletics had nothing to do with our decision to hold our ADHD son back because you KNOW that athletics had everything to do with the decision.
I ask again, please tell me what a fake liar is? Seriously, I am so confused with that term.
2) HPISD cheats because some players were held back – which is perfectly legal under the rules. And whatever school district you are a part of has no one holding their children back. Why don’t you let me know what school district you are in and we can check that out.
3) “In response to Old Man’s weak argument about how would you know if your child were good at sports at 18, most parents have the ability to look ahead and guess that at every single grade their child would have an advantage over others.”
We will agree to disagree. I am very impressed with your scouting abilities if you can tell me twelve years out who are going to be the “stud athletes.” Maybe give Jerry and Stephen Jones a call and volunteer those services.
Trust me, if you saw my kid, you wouldn’t be saying something like that.
4)CP – I am still waiting for your answers from my post above about the logic behind your statutory rape statement – which is still one of the most outrageous things posted on here in a long time. Please give me your thoughts on your statement. I am dying to hear them.
OM
@sammy –
I appreciate you taking the time to find a 2008 article about one woman’s decision making process whether or not to hold her son back. The studies she mentioned are not referenced – oh well. What you didn’t post here is the next sentence after the sentences you posted:
“Let me stop and rewind a bit: I am not talking about children with learning problems or developmental delays. Kids with delays and learning problems are a different consideration altogether.”
I will say this has been an interesting give and take.
To sum it up, I have had two children go through HPISD. Both late Spring birthdays. The first we didn’t hold back and he went through without incident. Our second, who is ADHD, we did hold back, and it has worked out fine so far. He is far from a stud athlete and studies hard enough to make the grades necessary to try go to UT, his dream school. I am convinced he is in his right place.
OM
You sound bitter.
Did somebody pee in your social pool? What’s your beef with HP? Or are you tired of losing and feel vindicated by taking stabs at HP when tabloid fodder is reported?
Families hold their children back for several reasons as mentioned above. It is not cheating if it is within the District Bylaws. Your argument lacks support.
Oh, by the way, I have three children in HPISD. All three are spring / summer birthdays, were not held back and the oldest starts for his varsity team. The majority of his peers are similar in age.
Get over it! Romo is the exception, not the norm.
Or are you tired of losing and feel vindicated by taking stabs at HP when tabloid fodder is reported
Wow. You managed to include 2 HP clichés into 1 sentence. HPers are arrogant and soft on rape
Please look at the larger picture- That rich kids without working mothers can keep their kids in(and pay for) prek for another year easier than a single working mother or two working parents from a less affluent school. But for those 4 people still reading this thread I graduated HP, have many friends with children at HP, and that is how I see it.
Should we look at the athletic prowess of the parents (or lack there of) before holding back a child?
I think we have about beat this to a pulp. I appreciate you keeping it on a civil basis and I hope you appreciate my position and can understand the frustration responding to the name calling and inaccuracies of many of the other posters.
I will tell you our older son’s kindergarten teacher recommended that he be held back solely because of his birth date but we did not do that. I agree that holding back is not a cure all and I would hope that the reasons would be stronger than they don’t want their child to be average.
Lastly, I was pointing out that the article you quoted from didn’t have references – I wish it had – I am not questioning the veracity of the stats quoted but it would have been nice to see the source.
I hope we can close the book on this and respect each other’s position. Thanks.
@CP – Please stop, you are embarrassing yourself. I will stop posting on this subject if you promise to do the same.
Learning difference, transferred from Shelton in middle school, held back at that time. Change any minds?
* I have 3 kids. I held one son back, but my daughter and other son stayed in their grade, and are in fact amongst the youngest in their class. Given some of your reasoning, I must have held my son back to get an advantage, whether academically or athletically. Then why wouldn’t I do it for all 3 of my children? Do I like my one son better?
Hey, I’ve got an idea…Why don’t we just change the rules of sports so there aren’t any losers and then everyone will be happy.
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